I'm finally free to make a long consolidated post.

How they CONvince you to join them

Beware when some random stranger messages you online, email, sms etc, asking to be friend. The typical lines would be...

"Whats your interest"
"Whats your ambition"
"Interested to do biz?"

This is called fake facade. Fake friendship. Some people go to great lengths to act out friendship to drag people into MLMing. Trust me... It's like a drama serial, all planned out.

Then one fine day they'll give an excuse to ask you out. This can be extremely creative. From askin you out to dinner, lunch to movies, asking you to help them do some stuff, give something to them, matchmaking, etc.

Usually it would be at an eating place, or someplace where you can gather. Most probably somewhere near the company's office. One favourite haunt is Lau Pa Sat.

Then here, the fake friendliness gets really scary. It seems everyone's know you for a million years and starts talking to you like an old frined. But take note there would almost always have this one person chatting to you. He'll be the most friendly, acting concerned, etc. Beware, this guy/girl might be your future upline if you join. Thi s is called building relationship is sales.

You would ask where they are going, then the most common excuses they'll give are:

"Why do you ask so much"
"It's very hard to explain"
"You'll know when you reach there"
"It's fun, its interesting"

Or they'll just divert topic.t

Ask them directly, and they would give you the lost for words expression, and will repeat the excuses. I've had 5 different people asking me "do you know what you're here for" and when I ask them what, they give all sorts of excues. So when I finally probe this guy, he admits its sales, but says its SLM, not MLM. They can think op of all sorts of unique names. But the concept is still the same. Another excuse is "start you own business".

Finally they've successfully tricked you into going for their outing. Then, slowly, fox tail emerges. They would tell you to go "somewhere see see" or some creative excuses to get you to go to their office, seminar, whatever.

Office situation:

Will intro you their products, will say how great the company is. Or to one particular company, says how great their father... oops i mean boss is.

Some companies, like this particular one used to be behind LPS, now shifted to Eunos will boast how great their company is, to lame extents, like how they can afford Shenton Way rent, if its not good they won't be able to, blah blah blah. Other people would hold you back until the big guy arrives with a "business proposal".

Typical manipulation of emotions sequence of steps:

1) Question your future

They would question your future, what is your ambition, etc.

2) Makes you question your future

They would make you question your future. Tell you to think of how much you can earn, how big is the industry of your field, etc.

3) Insults your future

They would say how bad your future is, there's no future in your field, etc. Your job no hope, cannot earn anything, won't be successful. Basically trying to shoot you down and to shatter your morale. This is a critical step for them.

4) "Reality check"

They would say how cost of living is increasing, how news say your field has no hope, etc. Stating some "examples". Say what power tariffs increasing, petrol price increasing, etc. Say you job would not be able to make the money to cover it.

5) "Your road to success"

Knowing your morale had been destroyed by steps 2 to 4, they try to "console" you, there is a way out. This is called, enforcing relationships. Like a knight helping a damsel in distress. They would hope that you would "thank" them for it.

6) Gives examples
Typical "examples":

a) Earn more than uni grad
b) "Look at him, he's < insert age here >, so young, driving car liao"
c) Say can earn few thousands a month. Shows the top earners in suits, looking confident, how much they had earned, a few 10Ks.
d) Say how MLM had "changed their lives" and "made them a better person"

7) Boast, compare

They would boast about how successful their company is, how fast they've grown, how fast they'll grow, etc. Would say how great their seniors are, say they're at

8 ) Big guy arrives

They would send for the big guys, their seniors, and most likely the steps would be repeated.

Many MLMs give ppl the false hope of making it big. Give example of ppl driving car, 5 figure income, in suits (in tropical sg weather!)... etc. So based on this argument of 5K figure, say I strike Toto once, got few hundred dollars. Then I see ppl making $15M in Toto, so I say I can retire early being professional Toto buyer?

Say simi sai can retire early, earn more than uni grad, financial freedom, etc. Lots of crap excuses. Say what cost of living increasing, start biz can earn more than working. Why work for 40 years, retire for 20 when u can work 20yrs, retire for 40?

The target youths... why? Cos youths are generally:.
1) presumed to have more friends (more potential downlines)
2) more lively (can sell more)
3) more daring
4) are presumed to be at crossroads of deciding what they want to do in their future
5) are presumed to be unsure of their future
6) are presumed to need $$$

Very Much VE style leh.....

location fits the bill also... anyway Redstone... i share the same sentiments... feeling cheated is never good... but then juz take it as an experience lor...

Not every MLM like that... not every MLM company will insult ur future ur job nor attack your life... those are not ethical....

Hope you will be convinced that not all MLM company are like tat.. juz out to con...

cheers

Nice works.

Keep it up.

Hi, in addition to the above, I would like to clarify on 1 point. In internet network marketing, it isn’t done the same way. You can’t really ask the guy out for lunch or dinner. In the online way, advertisements are simply placed all over the internet and those who are interested will join. So there is no need for fake friendship or anything like that. Cheers

Great job redstone

Originally posted by theinternetenterprise:

Hi, in addition to the above, I would like to clarify on 1 point. In internet network marketing, it isn't done the same way. You can't really ask the guy out for lunch or dinner. In the online way, advertisements are simply placed all over the internet and those who are interested will join. So there is no need for fake friendship or anything like that. Cheers

why do u need to clarify anything at all?

TS didn't say anything about internet network marketing or anything about internet at all.

Or are you aware of the similarities of TS's post with the stuff you're trying subtly to promote?

I’m saying the black sheeps, some of the black sheeps do this. I’ve had my encounters.

Just went thru another thread. It seems that some companies deliberately use the method of attacking your weakness, hurting your emotions and later "coming to your rescue".

They'll deliberately avoid the words M L M, make it as vague as possible until the last minute. I want someone to drag me down to a MLM office. I'll hoot them upside down. Any takers? Feel free to PM me.

Originally posted by redstone:

Just went thru another thread. It seems that some companies deliberately use the method of attacking your weakness, hurting your emotions and later "coming to your rescue".

They'll deliberately avoid the words M L M, make it as vague as possible until the last minute. I want someone to drag me down to a MLM office. I'll hoot them upside down. Any takers? Feel free to PM me.

You can try going to the MDIS building near Eunos, which i presume you are familiar with. Sometimes, one can spot many golden haired youngsters in suits taking smoke breaks and slacking. Life looks pretty aimless for them, understandably since life is wasted away by doing nothing constructive. They look quite "zuo bo" and would most probably be willing to drag you in should you take the initiative to approach them.

Last I peered through the glass panel, I only saw lots of tables and chairs. No products at all and pretty spacious. So finding some seating space will not be that much of an issue.

The target youths... why? Cos youths are generally:.
1) presumed to have more friends (more potential downlines)
2) more lively (can sell more)
3) more daring
4) are presumed to be at crossroads of deciding what they want to do in their future
5) are presumed to be unsure of their future
6) are presumed to need $$$ (hp bills, clothes, etc)

Originally posted by redstone:

Just went thru another thread. It seems that some companies deliberately use the method of attacking your weakness, hurting your emotions and later "coming to your rescue".

They'll deliberately avoid the words M L M, make it as vague as possible until the last minute. I want someone to drag me down to a MLM office. I'll hoot them upside down. Any takers? Feel free to PM me.

No point bringing you anywhere if u only wana hoot ppl.....

hey why not u hoot... BWL.... listed on SGX mainboard and joint venture wif HYFLUX... they also scam lah rite??? Scam can listed on SGX mainboard....

u find ppl bring u there and hoot them lah....

cheers

Hi Airgrinder, it is precisely that since Redstone did not mention anything about internet that I wanted to add on to it. That is my meaning of “clarifying”. As for the similarities , since this is the MLM forum, isn’t anything spoken here similar? Don’t really get what you mean here. Cheers

Originally posted by SolidSnake:

You can try going to the MDIS building near Eunos, which i presume you are familiar with. Sometimes, one can spot many golden haired youngsters in suits taking smoke breaks and slacking. Life looks pretty aimless for them, understandably since life is wasted away by doing nothing constructive. They look quite "zuo bo" and would most probably be willing to drag you in should you take the initiative to approach them.

Last I peered through the glass panel, I only saw lots of tables and chairs. No products at all and pretty spacious. So finding some seating space will not be that much of an issue.

what company is that?

Originally posted by AVG:

No point bringing you anywhere if u only wana hoot ppl.....

hey why not u hoot... BWL.... listed on SGX mainboard and joint venture wif HYFLUX... they also scam lah rite??? Scam can listed on SGX mainboard....

u find ppl bring u there and hoot them lah....

cheers

SGX is not a an authority on scams, neither will being listed on any exchange automatically clear any company of fraud and other wrongdoings.

On a similar note, many companies which were listed before, have been known to mislead investors, famous cases including Enron, Worldcom and locally, China Aviation Oil.

These companies were so big, that it became a norm to think their integrity were beyond question. My great condolences to those who thought so and lost life savings on them.

It always amazing that people think that company's integrity is not judged by its sound business fundamentals, but by its connection with government, other big companies or even listing on stock exchange.

For everyone's information, Enron was started by an ex senior Department of Energy official.

This is why there are so many investors in the equity market but so few winners.

Originally posted by laurence82:

SGX is not a an authority on scams, neither will being listed on any exchange automatically clear any company of fraud and other wrongdoings.

On a similar note, many companies which were listed before, have been known to mislead investors, famous cases including Enron, Worldcom and locally, China Aviation Oil.

These companies were so big, that it became a norm to think their integrity were beyond question. My great condolences to those who thought so and lost life savings on them.

It always amazing that people think that company's integrity is not judged by its sound business fundamentals, but by its connection with government, other big companies or even listing on stock exchange.

For everyone's information, Enron was started by an ex senior Department of Energy official.

This is why there are so many investors in the equity market but so few winners.

I agree... but if its a scam... can it work all the way to listed... look at SUNSHINE bakery store... store money but never make loti can be listed???

I agree wif you on the point where some big investment firms like CHINA AVIATION OIL case... its because of 1 man doings... well anyway...

Look... HYFLUX is a big company... working with BWL... why not u ask HYFLUX to work with SUNSHINE bakery... whether or not they have common interest...

well... i agree that SGX cannot limit if the company is in Fraud business... then anyone can juz set up a company... launder money with illegal dealing and get listed .... i believe the business model muz be sound so that they can apply for listing mah...

juz my 2 cents... mayb i am ignorant...

Originally posted by AVG:

I agree... but if its a scam... can it work all the way to listed... look at SUNSHINE bakery store... store money but never make loti can be listed???

I agree wif you on the point where some big investment firms like CHINA AVIATION OIL case... its because of 1 man doings... well anyway...

Look... HYFLUX is a big company... working with BWL... why not u ask HYFLUX to work with SUNSHINE bakery... whether or not they have common interest...

well... i agree that SGX cannot limit if the company is in Fraud business... then anyone can juz set up a company... launder money with illegal dealing and get listed .... i believe the business model muz be sound so that they can apply for listing mah...

juz my 2 cents... mayb i am ignorant...

I think you better not post. Your post is full of logical fallacies and it's making you look really stupid.

Originally posted by AVG:

I agree... but if its a scam... can it work all the way to listed... look at SUNSHINE bakery store... store money but never make loti can be listed???

I agree wif you on the point where some big investment firms like CHINA AVIATION OIL case... its because of 1 man doings... well anyway...

Look... HYFLUX is a big company... working with BWL... why not u ask HYFLUX to work with SUNSHINE bakery... whether or not they have common interest...

well... i agree that SGX cannot limit if the company is in Fraud business... then anyone can juz set up a company... launder money with illegal dealing and get listed .... i believe the business model muz be sound so that they can apply for listing mah...

juz my 2 cents... mayb i am ignorant...

you have not disputed my point

so what if its listed? so what if it work with other large companies? so what if its linked to gahmen and whatnot?

in what way has these conclusively make it clear that any scheme or business is not a scam?

Originally posted by laurence82:

you have not disputed my point

so what if its listed? so what if it work with other large companies? so what if its linked to gahmen and whatnot?

in what way has these conclusively make it clear that any scheme or business is not a scam?

There is nuthin much i can say if i tell u that an egg hit the stone, egg will crack... then u keep asking how come the egg will crack .... bla bla

Its juz my gut feeling that if a business is not sound or the module got problem.... no matter how big it gets... its not gonna get themselves exposed... cos listing to to expose to public ....

EG. An engine is used to generate power to the car inorder for it to move... but need petrol.......

Then u ask me abt piston lah... crank lah... cams lah.... combustion chambers lah.... compression ratio lah.... Pulley lah... Valve & Valve spring lah....

Honestly... if i can answer all your questions.... u will be voting for me during election day and i will have u repeat sales for 42yrs and counting.....

Call me a layman but technically decline

Originally posted by AVG:

There is nuthin much i can say if i tell u that an egg hit the stone, egg will crack... then u keep asking how come the egg will crack .... bla bla

Its juz my gut feeling that if a business is not sound or the module got problem.... no matter how big it gets... its not gonna get themselves exposed... cos listing to to expose to public ....

EG. An engine is used to generate power to the car inorder for it to move... but need petrol.......

Then u ask me abt piston lah... crank lah... cams lah.... combustion chambers lah.... compression ratio lah.... Pulley lah... Valve & Valve spring lah....

Honestly... if i can answer all your questions.... u will be voting for me during election day and i will have u repeat sales for 42yrs and counting.....

Call me a layman but technically decline

Its not about egg hitting the stone nor about why egg will crack

As you said, its your gut feelings. If you cannot prove or make a strong case, therefore whatever you said about being listed means not a scam is not conclusive or right.

I cant probe deeper, if you cant even tell me on the surface what it is.

Originally posted by laurence82:

Its not about egg hitting the stone nor about why egg will crack

As you said, its your gut feelings. If you cannot prove or make a strong case, therefore whatever you said about being listed means not a scam is not conclusive or right.

I cant probe deeper, if you cant even tell me on the surface what it is.

Why everyone has their own stand lah.... i cant tell u its right nor can i conclude the case but i juz can say that i have my own point of view and u haf yours...

So let it be lah....

Cheers

Originally posted by Where Is God:

I think you better not post. Your post is full of logical fallacies and it's making you look really stupid.

If u haf nuthin constructive to say then shut ur SH|T HOLE MOUTH....

I can post what i like when i like........ dun like it??? Ur problem....

Get the mods to ban me lah....

SPH always post news with sonetimes rubbish involved why not u ask them to stop circulating or stop publishing the papers....

U happy with GAHMENT policy??? If not go ahead and whack them on Newpapers .... if u choose to shut up bcos the other party is stronger then u jolly well shut ur gap and stop being a computer hero....

I might be stupid.... but it takes another to know....

Cheers

Originally posted by AVG:

Why everyone has their own stand lah.... i cant tell u its right nor can i conclude the case but i juz can say that i have my own point of view and u haf yours...

So let it be lah....

Cheers

But you dont even have basis for your own point of view

If your point of view is good enough, why not stand for it instead of resorting to the old 'everyone has their pov' thing?

Then why make such statements that scams dont make it to public listing?

Why?

Hi guys, I don’t mean to help or put down anyone here but I think that everyone does have a right to say what they want, even if it makes no sense to anyone else. After all that is what a forum is about, everybodys’ views. Anyway, from where the topic is going, it seems to be about whether if a company is cleared of fraud once it is listed on SGX or something like that. I do US trading so I don’t really know much about SGX. But personally, I think that there must be some criteria if it is to be listed in our precious SGX. Of course I am not saying that these criterias are able to clear a company of fraud but just that I guess only “sound” companies are allowed on SGX. Because Singapore very “kia see” mah. Anyone jump off the building because they lost their life savings goes headlines so they don’t really want that too. Again this is just my own personal opinion. Cheers

Originally posted by theinternetenterprise:

Hi guys, I don't mean to help or put down anyone here but I think that everyone does have a right to say what they want, even if it makes no sense to anyone else. After all that is what a forum is about, everybodys' views. Anyway, from where the topic is going, it seems to be about whether if a company is cleared of fraud once it is listed on SGX or something like that. I do US trading so I don't really know much about SGX. But personally, I think that there must be some criteria if it is to be listed in our precious SGX. Of course I am not saying that these criterias are able to clear a company of fraud but just that I guess only "sound" companies are allowed on SGX. Because Singapore very "kia see" mah. Anyone jump off the building because they lost their life savings goes headlines so they don't really want that too. Again this is just my own personal opinion. Cheers

Wait wait, please do not equate right to free speech to right to free blabbering

Why speak when proven to be speaking nonsense or the statements doesnt make sense?

Respect forum for what it is, a place to make sensible points.

Again, what you said doesnt make sense. We are talking about frauds and scams, and not 'sound companies'. And that 'sound companies' can make it on SGX or for that matter, NYSE, NASDAQ etc, also doesnt make sense, considering several governance issues around my examples, those of Enron, Worldcom or CAO..

So if Singapore dont want that people to jump off buildings because it causes headlines, may i know how Singapore gahmen show that they care by doing anything to resolves this 'jumping mania'?